Metacrisis Salon #14

Taking Down Oligarchy

Political scientist Jeffrey Winters says the United States was designed to be an oligarchy and a democracy at the same time, and that the design still works. We asked him how to take it apart.

September 10, 2026 · Lightning Lofts, Brooklyn, NY

Missed the salon? Listen to it

Follow the podcast
Metacrisis Salon #14: Taking Down Oligarchy

$116,000

what the median full-time worker would earn today if the inequality of 1975 had held. The actual figure is about 63,000

140,000:1

the Forbes 400 average against median American wealth. Imperial Rome's senators ran 16,000 to 1

$55T

shifted upward in the United States between 1975 and 2025, by Winters' count

$1T

a year in unpaid taxes, the IRS commissioner's own estimate. The last defense budget was 900 billion

Jeffrey Winters mid-talk, the room seated on every surface under the string lights.

Jeffrey Winters has studied oligarchy for 25 years. When the interests of ordinary people and the interests of the very rich diverge, he says, the many win zero times, no matter how large the majority, and the framers arranged it that way in a panic. Small farmers had captured half the state legislatures, printed paper money to discount their own debts, and marched into town centers to free debtors from prison and block judges from more foreclosures. House, Senate, executive veto, Supreme Court: each layer checks the one below it, and the people were given a vote on exactly one of the four. Aristotle wrote that a fusion of oligarchy and democracy is stable when on any given day you cannot tell which one you are living in. Winters says the framers achieved it, and that the confusion has held for 250 years. The average Roman senator held 16,000 times the wealth of the median Roman. The Forbes 400 average holds 140,000 times the median American's. His second half is about what to do with that: the doable laws oligarchs actually fear, and the radical redesigns worth preparing now, because the moments when oligarchs are weak never last long.

Snapshots from the Evening

Part 1 · How the Fusion Was Built

Jeffrey Winters

Professor of Political Science, Northwestern · author, The Blind Spot

Winters calls The Blind Spot, his second book on oligarchy, an effort at demystification and clarity. The first half is the historical case: a debt crisis, a rebellion, and a constitutional convention that met in a panic and designed a democracy the wealthy could live inside.

A lot of people say the democracy is a complete sham. Winters does not. Anybody who has lived in a non-democratic place knows our circumstances are different, and there are important ways in which we are democratic. And yet the system stops responding when serious struggle runs into certain kinds of resistance. Both descriptions hold at once, and the book asks how a society comes to be structured this way.

Gilens and Page did not claim there is no democracy. On the many issues where the many and the few want the same thing, outcomes look democratic. Their special question was what happens when the interests of the many and the rich few pull apart, and the answer was zero. Never, no matter how big the majority was.

  • The 2014 study covered 1,779 policy cases between 1981 and 2002. Average citizens' preferences had close to zero effect on whether a policy passed. Economic elites' preferences moved outcomes.
  • Winters and Benjamin Page are co-authors. They wrote Oligarchy in the United States? together in 2009.

The horizontal axis is how the non-rich treat each other. We exclude, trample, and marginalize people all the time, and over history people have struggled against the rest of the non-rich for representation and voice. It is never perfect and there are setbacks, but struggle on this axis correlates with gains. The vertical axis is the relationship between the non-rich and the rich. Should a democratic society be able to decide how unequal it will be? Most people answer yes. Can we? No, not in a system structured this way.

Wealth pyramids are ancient, and every one of them relied on coercion, violence, or awe to hold itself together, because stratification is inherently unstable and the wealthy always feel threatened. Then 250 years ago the first modern democracy emerged and something new happened. Stratification held through open participation. We take part in the system that produces the inequality, and we feel something like consent while it happens. He gives the arrangement a name, participatory inequality, because nothing before it worked this way.

  • Oligarchs historically faced threats from other oligarchs and from kings above them, not only from the poor below.
  • Winters: it is not that violence was happening every day, but you knew it was there and could be used if needed.

The War of Independence was funded with debt, and after it came something between a recession and a depression. The financiers wanted repayment with interest, and repayment ran through taxes on small farmers who did not have the money. The many had to pay the debt. The few held the debt and wanted it paid. Winters says the high school version, interstate commerce problems leading sensibly to Philadelphia, is false, and that the real fight of the decade was between debtor majorities and creditor oligarchs.

  • Three sources funded the war: creditor financiers in North America, creditor financiers in Europe, and governments intervening to shape the outcome.
  • Multiple attempts at a constitutional convention fizzled through the 1780s because power lived at the state level and powerful men did not want to open that up.

The United States inherited debtors' prisons from Britain, and they were the first prisons in the country. A farmer who could not pay when the sheriff arrived went to prison with rapists and murderers. Men, women, and children as young as two are documented in those prisons. Tens of thousands of small farmers went in. In some counties 70 percent of the farms had been foreclosed on. These small farmers had votes.

  • Winters: today you can turn your pockets inside out and say I am bankrupt, take my furniture. In the 1780s the same farmer went to prison.

Small farmers captured about half the state legislatures and asked for relief from debt and debtors' prisons. They got it in the form of printed paper money, which depreciated, which let a debtor pay off a debt at a discount. The pain of the crisis was pushed up onto creditors by democratic vote. Pennsylvania was his example: a House of Representatives only, no Senate above it, no governor's veto, because the role of a Senate is for wealthy people to block the House. In the hard-currency states run by creditors, Massachusetts above all, there was no relief at all.

  • Madison wrote in the Federalist Papers about the wickedness of paper money.
  • By his count six or seven states went to the small farmers and six to the creditor oligarchs.

In Massachusetts the begging and marching produced nothing, and thousands kept going into the prisons. So the people marched with fife and drum into town centers, armed, and did exactly two things. They released people from debtors' prisons, and they blocked judges from ordering more foreclosures. They did not attack the creditors, burn their businesses, or destroy their homes. Winters has read what high school students are taught about Shays' Rebellion, and says the anarchist uprising in the textbooks is not what happened. He calls it an oligarchy and democracy clash, and says that is exactly what it was.

  • There were hundreds of such rebellions across the region.

Washington himself had been unwilling to come out of retirement for a convention. What changed was watching half the states make democratic decisions on behalf of the poor, and watching rebellion in the states where no relief came. The reluctance turned to panic, and they ran to Philadelphia. The Congress had authorized them only to amend the Articles of Confederation. On their own, with no authorization, they decided to scrap the document and write a new one. Their very last decision was to embargo all their notes for a minimum of 30 years so no one could see what they had talked about.

  • Six people took notes of the deliberations. It took 53 years for the first notes to be published.

They disagreed about big states and small states, slave states and less slave states. They agreed about the problem. In Elbridge Gerry's words, there was an excess of democracy in America, and they wanted to fix it. These were wealthy men who believed in the consent of the governed and meant it, and who also believed the pyramidal form of society was just. Their word was natural. A flat society would go against human nature. Their diagnosis: society is pyramidal, the democracy is too flat, and the democracy must be restructured to match the pyramid.

  • The same Gerry gave his name to gerrymandering.
  • Licentiousness was their word for democracy that steals from the rich, with paper money as the standing example.

The House would be the only thing the people were allowed to vote for, and because the House was closest to the people it was dangerous. So a Senate was set over it, constituted exclusively by the wealthy and not by a vote, to check whatever came up. Over both legislative houses, an executive with a veto that takes a supermajority to overturn. And if something got through all of that, a Supreme Court that can block the entire democratic process no matter how legitimate. Winters describes it as a layered wedding cake, each layer a check on the one below. The horizontal checks and balances, protecting us against a king, get taught in every school. The vertical one, protecting the wealthy few against the many, never gets talked about.

  • The people did not get to vote for the Senate until 1913, by constitutional amendment. It was never intended that they would.
  • He says the framers discussed this structure openly as they built it. The notes were embargoed anyway.

The Politics, written 2,300 years before Philadelphia, wrestles with one problem. There are the few and there are the many, the structure is unstable, and the oligarchs will oppress the many while the many will take the oligarchs' money. Aristotle's solution was institutional design that melds oligarchy and democracy at the same time, and his test for getting it right was that on any given day you were not sure which one you were living in. Confusion is the basis of the fusion. Winters says the framers achieved the balance Aristotle laid out, and that it had never been achieved before.

  • Winters recommends reading the Politics itself. His summary of the test: perfect, that is the balance.

Given who was excluded and enslaved at the founding, the United States is dramatically more democratic than it was. It is also more unequal than it was 250 years ago, and Winters ranks today's liberal democracies among the most unequal societies ever to have existed. The comparison he closes on: the average Roman senator in imperial Rome, a small-farmer enslaved society, held about 16,000 times the wealth of the median Roman. The average of the Forbes 400, roughly the head count of the Roman Senate, holds about 140,000 times the median American's wealth. Eight or nine times the inequality of imperial Rome, sustained with participation, which oligarchs of old could never have dreamed of.

  • He calls it one of the biggest shocks of human civilization: liberal democracies among the most unequal societies ever, and sustained with participation.

The floor under the average person is far higher than it was, and Winters' answer to that is India. The American ratio of 140,000 to one becomes 5.6 million to one there, in a country with a comparable billionaire class and a far lower median standard of living. And India is a participatory democracy. He calls the Indian case one of the biggest head-scratchers political scientists have wrestled with for decades: how a society that unequal keeps open, participatory democracy running.

“When I looked into what the Dear Crisis community was about, I was excited about how unique it would be to discuss my new book with this group. The experience was way beyond my wildest dreams.”

Jeffrey Winters, Author, The Blind Spot

Part 2 · What To Do, and When

An attendee laughing out loud in the middle of the first half, the rows behind her still listening.
A hand going up at the back of the room while the discussion was still running.
A man in a red jacket answering from the floor into the microphone, with the room turned toward him.

The second half is strategy for two conditions. Inside the politics of the ordinary, strategic incrementalism: real laws that slow oligarchs down, one of which already passed. And for the politics of rupture, preparation: radical redesigns refined and tested now, because oligarchs are only weak for a moment. Both lists are in The Blind Spot at full length.

No matter how much additional wealth we generate, the question is whether we allow it to continue to be pyramidally distributed, and whether that is fair. The floor is higher than it was in Rome. We are not comparing American dentistry to Roman dentistry, he says. We are comparing inequality then and inequality now.

Between 1975 and 2025, by his count, 55 trillion dollars shifted upward in American society. Two RAND economists asked in 2020 what the median full-time income would be if the inequality of 1975, itself not an equal society, had simply held while the economy grew, and Winters projects their answer forward to today. Instead of something like 63,000 dollars, the median personal income would be closer to 116,000 dollars, 84 percent higher. He offers it as a slogan: restore the glorious inequality of 1975. That is the size of the loss in the standard of living of the average person.

  • RAND's figures, in 2018 dollars: the median full-year, full-time worker earned 42,000 dollars in 1975 and 50,000 in 2018, against a counterfactual of 92,000. The top one percent earned 1,384,000 against a counterfactual of 630,000, 55 percent lower.
  • Winters' extrapolation to 2024: a median full-time income of 63,360 dollars that would be at least 116,582.

This is a society remarkably tolerant of great material inequality. Lots of people buy lottery tickets wanting to win 100 million dollars, and nobody holds the ticket thinking that winning would make them an oligarch. They think it would be great. At the same time, Bernie Sanders has spent almost two years drawing between 10,000 and 25,000 people to rallies about fighting oligarchy, which Winters calls extraordinary. He spent most of his 25 years on the subject being told oligarchs were a Russian phenomenon.

A student on the first day of his Northwestern seminar blurted out that Russia has oligarchs and the United States has rich people. For a long time the American idea of an oligarch required getting rich in a corrupt way and then engaging in politics. No corruption element, not an oligarch. Winters treats that definition as a detour the word took here. Oligarchs are people empowered by wealth. How the wealth was acquired has nothing to do with it. The word, he says, has now come back.

  • The seminar is called Oligarchs and Elites.

Stealth wealth was the old discipline: in a fused oligarchy and democracy you should not be too visible. After Citizens United, after victory after victory, Winters says the discipline is gone. They are drunk with confidence, brazen, and they feel they legitimately rule. He has a chapter called In Your Face Oligarchy.

  • We have not had this much visibility of oligarchs since the Gilded Age, when the word for them was robber barons.

People who give blood are donors. People who pump money into the political system to produce outcomes in their favor are investors, and Winters says the accurate sentence is that they are venture capitalists funding outcomes, and that the media cannot use the word. He catches himself mid-talk about to say a shell corporation can donate to a super PAC, stops, and corrects the verb to invest.

The backlash from below against the robber barons ran roughly four decades and delivered real setbacks. Corporations were broken up. In 1894 the first peacetime income tax passed, written so it fell only on the top third of one percent. The Supreme Court struck it down in 1895, the last bulwark doing its job, and reversing the Court took 18 years and a constitutional amendment. The rest of the twentieth century was democracy wanting progressive taxation and oligarchs fighting for regressive, and the oligarchs won. But while they were losing, wealth concentration at the top stagnated and the living standards of the average household tripled in real terms.

  • The amendment was the 16th, ratified in 1913.
  • Winters: it matters that they got too brazen.

The fusion depends on confusion, and the oligarchs have squandered it. On any given day now, Americans do not feel they are living in a democracy. Confidence in the institutions is gone, and awareness of what wealth power does is high, which is why the word oligarchy is suddenly everywhere. Wealth taxes, un-American by long habit, are being voted on in California, in play in New York, and under coordinated discussion in Europe. It takes awareness, mobilization, and coordination.

  • Europe's coordination includes proposals for an exit tax: 40 percent of their wealth for the rich who try to leave.

The number one store of wealth for the average household is the house, and it is taxed annually, reassessed by the county, over and over. Wealthy people pay property tax too, but on a small percentage of their total wealth. The viciousness is in the base: you are taxed on the full value of the house, not your equity. Put 100,000 dollars of equity in a 500,000 dollar house and you are taxed on 500,000. You are taxed on the mortgage. He points at the grandmother who paid off her house over 50 years and has to sell it as the assessments climb, and asks where the boohooing is for her, given how much sympathy attends the oligarch who might not be liquid enough to pay three percent.

The liberal system is designed to stop the definition of democracy at voice and voting. Winters offers a different one: democracy is power, in all of its relevant forms, shared equally. Oligarchs do not mind us having voice and voting, so long as wealth power stays concentrated exclusively in their hands, because the average oligarch holds the equivalent of millions of our voices and votes. The contest is between wealth power and voting and voice.

  • He says it was a painful book to write, and that a friend told him he would not have written it without hope. Winters: clarity hurts, but it is important.

After 9/11 the Patriot Act required banks to know their clients and report suspicious activity, because terrorism. Oligarchs and terrorists use the same vehicles, so that law complicated tax evasion and avoidance, and the transactions moved into vehicles with no transparency duties. The ENABLERS Act extended know-your-client rules to about 30 more kinds of entity: law firms doing transactions for oligarchs, family offices, real estate agencies. It was slipped into the defense authorization bill and blocked by a single senator, Toomey of Pennsylvania. It almost passed. Winters: it is doable.

  • His estimate of public awareness: 99.999 percent of people have never heard of it, and nobody should feel embarrassed.

States like Delaware and Wyoming let a corporation form in complete secrecy, with the beneficial owner never documented, which is what lets a shell invest in a super PAC, buy shares, open bank accounts, move money offshore, and form trusts with only an entity name on record. The Corporate Transparency Act, passed in 2021 inside the defense authorization bill, ordered a national registry of the beneficial owners of some 33 million corporations, six questions each, including name and Social Security number. The registry opened in 2024 and companies began registering. Months after the election, the Treasury Secretary exempted 99.9 percent of corporations by rule, with a stroke of the pen. Winters says nothing was more devastating to oligarchs in the past 30 years, and that they knew it: the act was named in Project 2025. The law is still on the books. A future Treasury can reimpose the requirement the same way it was removed.

  • The activists who passed it framed it as an anti-money-laundering and counterterrorism measure, not an oligarch measure. It passed.
  • Publicly listed corporations were exempt from the start, because their owners are already known. The registry aimed at shells.

C corporations, with one set of owners in a clear structure, turned out to be too easily taxed. The wealth defense industry, his coinage for the lawyers and advisers whose profession is protecting concentrated wealth, built the alternative: large partnerships, a blob of partners in a maze of relationships that the IRS cannot disentangle. The original partnerships had about 100 members. Today a single large partnership can have 500,000, and it is unauditable.

The IRS is required by law to publish the gap between what its own data shows it should collect and what it actually collects. The IRS commissioner has put the tax gap at about one trillion dollars a year, against a defense budget of about 900 billion. The gap is overwhelmingly oligarchs not paying, serviced by the wealth defense industry, and the mechanics compound: the money not surrendered earns returns, which accelerates wealth concentration.

  • The IRS's 2024 report put the gap for 2022 at 696 billion dollars and admitted the projection does not fully represent noncompliance because data are lacking. Charles Rettig, commissioner in 2021, told the Senate Finance Committee the real figure was about a trillion dollars in unpaid taxes every year.

Deep changes proposed today get you called a joker, so Winters wants them prepared today. Moments of rupture and crisis are when oligarchs are at their weakest, because the system stops working for them too, and he is not in favor of cataclysms, but the only thing worse than a deep rupture is a wasted one. The politics of preparation means thinking the radical reforms through now, refining them, debating them, testing them at small scale, and being ready for the pushback, because the window is short and you cannot do this work in a politics of the last minute.

Eliminate the Senate, whose designed function is to block the House. End the absolute executive veto: an executive exists to put the people's legislation into effect, so at most allow a veto that stalls a decision and sends it back down, overridden by a simple majority. And expanding the Supreme Court to 13 and stacking it is, in his word, wrong. Make it a minimum of 45 members, half appointed through a rotating legislative committee and half by public lottery, open to anyone with a law degree who has served as a judge at any level, on limited terms.

Political science, he says, is largely devoted to explaining how you are not actually represented by the person you voted for. Sortition skips the mechanism that fails. Compose the legislature by national lottery and you get an instant sample of the country: women at half the seats immediately, racial representation immediately, after decades of struggle for both. Oligarchs would do very badly in a lottery. He would not run it at 435 seats but at 3,000, because the odds of a bad sample fall as the number rises. The objection is always whether you can trust an average citizen to legislate.

Imagine someone campaigning with money to get on a jury. You would immediately call it illegitimate. Yet juries, chosen by lottery, decide guilt and innocence, life and death, and we accept it. Winters has served on two juries, and says he has been consistently blown away by the seriousness of average citizens in positions of real responsibility. You empower people and they get very serious. You disempower people and they are interested in the Kardashians, because why study anything in detail when nothing you conclude can matter?

  • Winters: we already know from Gilens and Page's work that our existing system of expressive representation does not represent us, and that strengthens the case for representation by lottery.

About 85 percent of campaign costs are advertising. We own the airwaves, literally, all of us together. The FCC manages them on our behalf, and the media lease their signals from us. They do not own them. So during elections we can command the media to provide airtime free, and the cost of an election plummets. Oligarchs cannot dominate that cost structure, and access to campaigning becomes much more accessible. A democratic decision can do that by fiat. Make your money on the Super Bowl, he says. At campaign time, the last three months, free airtime, because we own it and it is our democracy.

  • He added it unprompted after the last audience question, as the last thing he wanted to say.

Questions that were asked in the room

Find the organizations and join them. Our participation costs our time, which is zero-sum with everything else in our lives, and an oligarch's wealth power expresses itself while he golfs. So showing up really matters. And know your privilege, then use it. Wallowing in guilt is useless. Some of the most important moments in history came from class traitors, people who turned their empowerment against their own group. I say that to oligarchs too. I have interviewed them, and some want to turn their power against oligarchy. I do not care how they got there. If they will take that concentrated power and aim it at this structure, we are allies. What progressives do better than anything else is form circular firing squads.

Know your own superpower first. I am incredibly bad at organizing. My contribution was to write the book, the first one I have written for the general population instead of academics, out of step with my colleagues. Artists, musicians, and organizers who get things done all row this boat differently. And movements need leadership. Occupy Wall Street was so egalitarian it had no leadership, so when the media wanted to talk to Occupy, nobody could speak for it. Ask any sociologist who studies movements: the people you are up against are organized and structured. It is okay to be structured while you fight for something more egalitarian. If you lead well, lead, and do not be afraid if people follow.

Move against them at a moment of their strength. Allende came to power in Chile democratically, after 21 years of struggle. His movement threatened oligarchs, redistributing concentrated land and changing conditions in factories, and he said all along that it had democratic legitimacy. They killed him, and they destroyed the movement. Indonesia's communist party was absolutely committed to the democratic path, unarmed, and did so well in the 1955 and 1957 elections that it clearly would have won in 1959. That was unthinkable in Washington in the Cold War. The party was slaughtered, about a million people in six months, roughly ten thousand a day, because of the threat it posed democratically. Oligarchs do not go quietly, and where the state will not defend them, they hire militias and defend themselves. Make the deepest moves under conditions of their greatest weakness.

That would be very hard for most people. I am a political scientist, this is my day job, and when I go into the booth and have to vote on judge so-and-so, I vote with a cheat sheet from an organization I trust, right down the line, because I cannot familiarize myself with all of it. There are limitations. Sortition samples the population and says go at it. And I would not have 435 members of Congress. I would have 3,000, because a bad sample gets less likely as the number goes up.

Media ownership is more concentrated in fewer hands than ever, and the public has lost confidence in media at the same moment. Those two things are related. If people felt the media were far more contested in voices and in ownership, they would trust it more. So learn from the Gilded Age and break up the big, by law. You would be amazed what we can do by law. The gap between CEO pay and average worker pay: index them to each other and the gap cannot widen. Do not talk about minimum wage. Index the wages of people to the top, and boards will watch what they pay the top because everyone else rises with it. We passed a law saying children cannot labor. We can index wages.

I do not know if that would work, and I am completely open to the idea. I want to hear how it would play out. I might raise feasibility questions, but my attitude is that we need to be incredibly expansive and creative about what we consider as alternatives, and explore them. The more ideas out there the better.

Go deeper: the study guide

Winters' book asks how extreme wealth defends itself inside a democracy. The study guide walks The Blind Spot in about forty minutes, made as homework before the night, so it goes deeper than the evening had room for. It covers the fusion the framers built, the industry that defends concentrated wealth, and the redesigns he wants ready before the next rupture.

☞ Buy The Blind Spot

Links and Resources

Listen

The speaker

The research

Named in the room

From earlier salons

☞ All salon recaps☞ Were you in the room? Give us feedback